Hi Everyone,
This post definitely needed a part 2 because many of you don’t seem to understand that the wide frame surrounding the window is not part of the window casing. And then there are some technical misconceptions. As usual with two part posts, please start from the top of the page for greater understanding. If you like reading in reverse or have already read part 1, then please click the link below which will then take you to part 2.
Part 2 Begins Here
Hi Everyone,
Today, we are continuing the topic of the den, living room windows, and the Roman shades I’m planning.
I have spoken at length to Dianne Lee, owner of By Harrington, a custom workroom specializing in Roman Shades. However, she also makes curtains. Luckily, I specified dozens of Roman shades during the 20 years I helped clients.
However, my living room windows, while spectacularly tall, have several issues.
One is that they’re too tall for Roman shades, from a technical standpoint. That’s a lot of fabric to have fold up. Dianne agrees it will be better not to have them come down all the way. I will most likely never lower them more than halfway down the window if that much.
Therefore, I made a schematic that shows the shade when it is fully down. (below)
I indicated where the rings are, but you won’t see them unless the fabric is sheer or semi-sheer.
The rings (folds) are eight inches apart, so I did nine folds and one last stationary fold.
In other words, there is still a fold when the shade is let down all the way. Early on in my career, I didn’t know to specify that, and I was pretty horrified to walk into my client’s son’s room with the shade all the way down, dragging on the sill. It looked like someone had stuck a sheet up there.
However, because of the decorative trim, these Roman shades must have a permanent fold followed by a flap.
Still, I like doing a little flap even if there isn’t a trim on flat fold Roman shades these are called.
Please review the different styles of Roman shades in “Roman Shades Weren’t Built in a Day.”
My finished length will be 81″. The bottom flap, so far, will be 9″. There is 1-1/2″ above and below the Greek Key design, which is six inches high. This is for both the den and living room windows.
However, I wasn’t quite sure about the size of the Greek key trim. So, I did two more schematics with the shade pulled up.
Above is a 6″ high design with 5/8″ wide grosgrain ribbon. Below is the same grosgrain ribbon, but the design is 5″ high.
There isn’t a huge difference, but I prefer the 5″ high design with an 8″ flap. Do you have a preference?
I will show you the fabric I want to get on Monday. It is very similar to the fabric Meg Braff used and won’t look as stiff as my drawing does. That is for design purposes only.
Geez, Laurel. There’s so much that goes into designing the window treatments.
Yes, I know. And we haven’t even gotten into the fabric yet!
Okay, back to the issues.
2. The window is curved. This isn’t a big problem except that the only place to put the inside mount Romans has a very narrow space in the middle of the window. Here, let me show you what I’m talking about. The shade is going in the lowest curved part that’s shaded.
Above is the window. The curve looks exaggerated because of perspective, but it is still there.
Above is a detailed view. The shade should go in the shaded curved part. Do you see how narrow it is in the middle? There is a workaround: We can run the mounting board so the one-inch side is vertical. The shade will protrude slightly in the middle, but it won’t be noticeable. We did that all the time when the windows were very shallow, including the Roman shades in our New York townhouse.
Laurel, you lost me at the “shaded curved part.”
Okay, sorry. I realize it isn’t very easy. Here’s a better graphic.
If the shade went inside the square space below it, a wide inset of wood would be on each side between the window and the window casing. I’ve never seen a window done this way, but that’s what it is. It’s like someone ordered the windows, then made the opening, and when the windows arrived, the opening was too big, so they filled it in with wood.
Above is a virtual shade covering only the window. This one will look a bit odd, as it emphasizes that the window is in a giant frame.
The shade should fit inside the wider portion, as shown above.
Please note that this is not a view anyone sees.
This is the most common view of the windows. If one is standing close, then the eye doesn’t go more than about four feet up. This image also shows a little better that the inset closest to the glass is too narrow a shade for the expansive casing and inset of the window frame.
Okay, we will continue this topic…
xo,
*********************************************************
Part 2 Begins Here
Guys! Oh my, there have been so many comments.
Alas, I don’t know what happened this week, but many comments were painful to read. While I love hearing from you, please try to have a little faith that after decades of experience in this business, it is for a good reason when I emphatically state something.
However, when I don’t know something, I say so, too. Yet, that is not the case when it comes to Roman Shades.
There is no contest about how wide the shades should be, yet many of you disagree.
It is fine if you don’t understand. However, I would prefer it if you asked questions instead of going on about some erroneous assumptions.
While many of you selected the narrower of the two shades, the outer window frame, adds an additional 3.5 inches on each side to an already beefy and wide window casing. Exposing that wide frame would make the entire casing 11″ wide. That is something I’ve never seen.
To be clear, that piece is not actually part of the gorgeous trim. No, I am not covering any part of that as some of you implied I was planning on doing. The trim (window casing) is the fluted part with the plinth block.(below) I am also including the piece marked #1 below as part of the casing.
The blue two is where the shade should sit.
Many of you thought the shade should be at #3. I can’t emphasize strongly enough that it would be a terrible mistake.
Below is the old window treatment that shows the proper placement for my Roman Shades.
The photo above was taken shortly after I moved here and was trying out my new Roborock.
Anyway, these window coverings were mounted on a small board like the one used for the Roman Shades and in the same location. Does it look bad? I don’t think so.
I apologize that the image from part 1 exaggerated the curve of the casing due to lens distortion which I can’t control. But, please understand that the header casing, which is 11 feet up from the ground, is the ONLY curved element related to the window. Everything else is straight, including the window, sash, window sill, panel moulding, and baseboard heater. All are flat. So, why would you do a curved Roman Shade?
Going on, while I understand the thinking behind a curved board for the Roman shades, it’s impossible.
If your board is curved, your shade must also be curved. You cannot have a curved Roman shade. And even if you could, why would you do a curved shade over a flat window?
But, Laurel, I think it will look terrible if the board sticks out.
Again, please have a little faith. This is your imagination, and maybe the need to be a contrary? Roman shades can go on a very narrow board.
The 1 x 2 is actually 3/4″ x 1.5″. The narrowest part of the inset is at least 1/2″ but might be 5/8″. I promise that you will not notice that slight overhang of the board. Did you notice it in the original treatment?
This is a common practice in interior design to run the little board so the skinny side is what gets screwed into the header. It only sticks out a week bit and no one notices.
In post-war architecture, most double-hung windows only allow for a very small reveal where the shade can go—usually only about 1/2″. We had this same situation in our New York townhouse. (In the post, you’ll see a Roman shade, with a Greek Key border in my client’s home, which also stuck out 1/4″. BTW, that was done 26 years ago!)
I apologize for the horrid real estate pics. I hardly recognized our home in these photos.
But then, some of you said you preferred the “inside mount.”
Please note that all three possible shade placements are inside Mount Roman Shades.
Below is what an outside mount would look like.
Outside means outside the casing. The shade covers the entire casing and should extend about an inch on each side to ensure the casing is completely covered. Unless there’s a compelling reason, I rarely did outside-mount Roman shades. It would be absurd to do on these windows, in any case.
Below is a new and better image that shows what the new Roman Shades will look like—virtually.
It isn’t easy to get the perspective exactly right, but at least this is a real shade instead of a drawing of a shade. I was chastised for one shade because my two-dimensional line drawing looked “stiff.”
Note. It also will not be noticeable that the board is straight and the header is curved. There isn’t a choice. However, rest assured that it will be fine.
Moving on… You may have seen in my comments that I have decided on the 6″ size for the design, and I’ve also decided on the 5/8″ trim.
I considered 3/4″ but I think the thinner trim will be better. Another thing is that there is no question that it needs to be black or almost black. While I love light trims and have used them numerous times, a light trim, in this room will look blah and fall flat. The trim is also not taking anything away from the windows. It adds visual interest.
Of course, you may do whatever you like in your home, but please allow me to do the same in mine. That is all I ask. I love you all, but as I’ve had to say a lot recently.
Please be kind.
Most of you are– incredibly kind.
In case you’re still struggling with any part of what I’m saying, or even if you’re not, I went over everything in detail in this short video. Plus, you’ll get to see my hair, which was just done. LOL, I love the color. It’s more auburn like it used to be, and I think it suits me better.
Okay, I promised you a pattern for the trim and have already spent hours on it!
Alas, it’s almost finished, but I need to make one tweak and then put every measurement on it. So, Thursday is for sure unless something impedes that from happening. Also, I want to review the fabric I chose, the rejects, and why they didn’t make the cut. Then, we’ll move on to another topic.
Window treatments are tough!
xo,
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Happy 30th Birthday to my son, Aaron!
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